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  • Clear .5 Miles of Tower with No Signal

    Hi, I am new to Clearwire. So new I do not have my equipment yet and may never become a real customer. I am .5 miles from a tower (confirmed by support and the authorized dealer). Also I have a home network with several drives connect through my Belkin Wireless N (F5D8235-4) that I need to access.

    -I was originally given a "CLEAR Spot 4G+"
    *4G was sporadic with 500-600K downloads signal strength was 10% max
    *3G was about 680Kwith 60% - 80% signal
    - with this I could bridge the device with my network in Windows to access my drives

    -Now I have been given CLEAR Modem-Series G (WIXB-175)
    * I get 1 bar for signal strength with 600 - 700K down
    - I cannot access my network and I have to configure my router as access point only to get internet though my network. Bridging would not work. As the equipment is loner I cannot access its system.

    -Next I have gotten an email that a PLCWW80134 PC Card has been shipped (not sure what this is)

    Can some one offer any assistance. Support and the location I got my service at are trying to help but it does not seem to be working.

    Things tried:
    -With the Clear spot I walked all around the inside my house and to my back door (back door is direction of Tower) and window on that side of house.

    -Network access... From other posts guessing router does not work do to Nat and DHCP being enabled on both devices which explains why access point only does work, but this does not allow access to my drives. As my drives are a function of the router I am at a loss. Fairly sure need DHCP or router for that feature to function.

    GUESSING I'M IN A SHADOW OF SOME SORT ALTHOUGH I CANT SEE THAT EITHER

  • #2
    PLCWW80134 is the manufacturer part number for the Clear 4G+ hotspot http://www.clearwire.com/downloads/C...06-15-2010.pdf which is the same device you say you had?

    I think you are mixing up two unrelated issues here:
    1) Poor coverage problems
    2) Network access problems

    We can help you with the wireless coverage problems but not for these Clear Spots since they don't have external antenna ports. The setup that has worked very well for many people is to get a modem that has an external antenna port like the Sierra 250U or the Clear 4G USB (PXU1900). Then attach a high gain outdoor antenna. The goal is to improve indoor coverage and since Wimax protocol using dynamic modulation an improved RSS often means better throughput (and a more stable experience).

    Here is a generic example of such a setup: http://www.rfwel.com/support/tech-dr...ENERIC_USB.pdf. Note that this modems have two external antenna ports and we discuss in this forums when a signal external antenna can work. Also notice that in this diagram we have used a Cradlepoint MBR1200 router which converts the WiMax to WiFi and standard LAN. You can use other Cradlepoint Routers as well such as the MBR900 or MBR1000.

    Once you have improved your RSS you can more reliably debug your connection issue with the rest of your network. Chances are if you do get the Cradlepoint routers your Belkin-N router would be redundant and best removed altogether.

    To determine if you are even a good candidate for external antennas you need to determine what your outside signal strength is relative to your indoor signal. If you can post your RSSI & CINR values that would help (be sure to get static/average numbers over a non-instantaneous observation window to make sure you are not seeing a short-term peak/null).

    2.5 GHz that Clear WiMax uses doesn't penetrate buildings very well so the above experiment will really help shed some light on this.
    KF7RCQ

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by thuor View Post
      PLCWW80134 is the manufacturer part number for the Clear 4G+ hotspot http://www.clearwire.com/downloads/C...06-15-2010.pdf which is the same device you say you had?

      I think you are mixing up two unrelated issues here:
      1) Poor coverage problems
      2) Network access problems

      We can help you with the wireless coverage problems but not for these Clear Spots since they don't have external antenna ports. The setup that has worked very well for many people is to get a modem that has an external antenna port like the Sierra 250U or the Clear 4G USB (PXU1900). Then attach a high gain outdoor antenna. The goal is to improve indoor coverage and since Wimax protocol using dynamic modulation an improved RSS often means better throughput (and a more stable experience).

      Here is a generic example of such a setup: http://www.rfwel.com/support/tech-dr...ENERIC_USB.pdf. Note that this modems have two external antenna ports and we discuss in this forums when a signal external antenna can work. Also notice that in this diagram we have used a Cradlepoint MBR1200 router which converts the WiMax to WiFi and standard LAN. You can use other Cradlepoint Routers as well such as the MBR900 or MBR1000.

      Once you have improved your RSS you can more reliably debug your connection issue with the rest of your network. Chances are if you do get the Cradlepoint routers your Belkin-N router would be redundant and best removed altogether.

      To determine if you are even a good candidate for external antennas you need to determine what your outside signal strength is relative to your indoor signal. If you can post your RSSI & CINR values that would help (be sure to get static/average numbers over a non-instantaneous observation window to make sure you are not seeing a short-term peak/null).

      2.5 GHz that Clear WiMax uses doesn't penetrate buildings very well so the above experiment will really help shed some light on this.

      I have the Siera 250U and a M series modem. Where can I get the SWD connector for the SMA Male?? And how can I split the connections for both. T Adapter. I am only .6 mile away from a tower...but a building and Trees are in it's path

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RickyP03 View Post
        I have the Siera 250U and a M series modem. Where can I get the SWD connector for the SMA Male?? And how can I split the connections for both. T Adapter. I am only .6 mile away from a tower...but a building and Trees are in it's path
        Here is the SWD connector: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...3000&x=16&y=23

        Not sure what you mean by T adapter. You cannot connect both antenna ports to the same cable. If you need to use both antenna ports you would need two connectors/pigtails, two cables and two antennas (which is in fact the recommended approach since this way you take advantage of MIMO diversity gain available with 4G WiMax).

        If by T-adapter you mean an RF 3dB power splitter/combiner we do have those but still not quite sure why you would need one. We also have WiMax/cellular diplexers such as: http://www.rfwel.com/shop/Cellular-W...-2690-MHz.html but this is useful only if you needed to carry signals at different carrier frequencies on the same cable (so to combine 3G cellular PCS at 1.9GHz with 4G WiMax at 2.6GHz).

        Comment


        • #5
          More Info Requests

          Sorry for the delay in responding. Firstt I was thinking about the T-connector for using it for both the USB Modem and the Home Modems. OR...conecting Two antennaes to one lead. I assume, from your response that the later is not possible. It has 3-N-Female connections. So, would it be possible to connect one antennae to two different modems?
          But first the primary concern...The Muranta probe as illustrated is a $50 kit for one pigtail. Does it have tobe this expensive of a kit? Is there not a connector that will go into a SMA-Male - to Female antenna connection on the Modem? Or a pigtail for SMA-Female to the Femal connector on the board?
          Next, no one illustrated how they are bring the cable into the home. That LMR 400 cable...with it's connections, are very thick. I know that there are Flat F-FLAT window cables and I think I've seen SMA's somewhere. I know that there is a lost suffered with each connections encountered. My problem (I think) is more Line-of-sight more than amplification. There are trees and buildings in the way. BTW, is angling the antennae 10-30 degrees, better than staright/level.
          I'm sorry for so many questions and thank you in advance fo your patience.
          Next, I know that the higher the dbi antennae the stronger...but also, isn't too much might be a detriment? Also, which is better Panel, Grid or Omni directional?

          Comment


          • #6
            First I was thinking about the T-connector for using it for both the USB Modem and the Home Modems. OR...conecting Two antennaes to one lead. I assume, from your response that the later is not possible. It has 3-N-Female connections. So, would it be possible to connect one antennae to two different modems?
            You are right each modem needs its own antenna. Since both modems could be transmitting/receiving at the same time if you used one antenna they would interfere with each other. For example for transmission both modem power amplifiers would be generating a waveform that would be inducing currents on the antenna structure and this would be superimposed to that generated by other modems power amplifier and this would severely distort the output electromagnetic wave generated.

            The Muranta probe as illustrated is a $50 kit for one pigtail. Does it have tobe this expensive of a kit?
            Remember that this CPE device is NOT designed for an external antenna port. The internal antenna post is typically used for factory test, protocol compliance test and regulatory/FCC testing and test probes used by these test labs tend to be expensive since the volumes are low.

            That LMR 400 cable...with it's connections, are very thick. I know that there are Flat F-FLAT window cables and I think I've seen SMA's somewhere.
            LMR400 is very low loss about 6.9dB/100ft at 2.6GHz. You can get more flexible but higher loss cable such as LMR200 (17.22dB/100ft) depending on how long of a cable run you need. So it's a compromise based on cable length, current receives signal strength (RSS) and target RSS.

            True you could get more flexible cable like the LMR-400-UF (UltraFlex) or others. We dont stock these.

            My problem (I think) is more Line-of-sight more than amplification. There are trees and buildings in the way.
            You don't necessarily need LOS for 4G. What's more important is what your outdoor RSS regardless of whether you have LOS or not. 4G uses MIMO technology designed to mitigate multipath propagation issues that result when you dont have LOS.

            BTW, is angling the antennae 10-30 degrees, better than staright/level.
            There's no general answer to this. Again it depends on what will give you the best signal. What you would do is hook everything up and using a partner sweep the antenna in different directions/angles while watching what the RSS is. Once you hit a sweet spot (and verify that it really is the best direction/angle) you would tighten the antenna. Note i stress verifying that you really have a stable sweet spot to prevent you from catching a temporary spike.

            Next, I know that the higher the dbi antennae the stronger...but also, isn't too much might be a detriment?
            Right again. Too much gain is not necessarily good. Too much gain would saturate input low-noise amplifier of the modem (and cause non-linearity/clipping which would affect the speed) as well as cause the output EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power) to be outside regulatory limits which could affect other users. The amount of gain you chose should depend on:
            • how long of a cable you will use since the longer the cable the more the loss so you need a larger antenna to overcome the loss.
            • how weak your outdoor signal is



            which is better Panel, Grid or Omni directional?
            The most popular is the 18dBi panel antenna: http://www.rfwel.com/shop/2.5-2.7GHz...l-Antenna.html (works best for most people). The omni is good if you have strong signals coming in from all directions or you dont want to worry about orienting the antenna. The omni antenna is however lower gain (our highest gain omni is the 12dBi here: http://www.rfwel.com/shop/2.3-2.7-GH...i-Antenna.html)

            The gain has a very high gain of 24dBi is is most popular if you need very long cable runs > 75ft. It has significant drawbacks such as lower front-to-back ratio and narrower beamwidth (when compared to panel). Since you mentioned that you don't have a clear LOS the grid might not be the best choice for you.

            Comment


            • #7
              No other choice?

              So, the 'kits' that you show is everything I need for ONE hookup to the CPEi725 (w/o the pigtail)? There is nothing that will fit over those post(s) except that Muranta probe. Also, for MAXIMUM benefits, I would need FOUR Antennae Kits to hook up the both the primary and seconday posts on both the Sierra and Series M modems?
              Another thought, these modems are designed (falsely advertised) to work inside the home...while every member I've witnessed here are concerned with locating it near a window and/or adding an antennae. Is there anyway to bring that "power' inside the house? Terminating the lead from the antennae to some kind of module inside the house?
              Last edited by thuor; 05-03-2011, 02:04 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                So, the 'kits' that you show is everything I need for ONE hookup to the CPEi725 (w/o the pigtail)?
                You don't necessarily need two antennas. You can get away with one. See this article to learn more about this: http://www.rfwel.com/forums/content....s-Two-Antennas

                There is nothing that will fit over those post(s) except that Murata probe.
                The antenna port is very specific so you need the exact pigtail for it. You can search online if anyone has it cheaper but no you cannot use any arbitrary connector - it simply will not fit.

                Another thought, these modems are designed (falsely advertised) to work inside the home...while every member I've witnessed here are concerned with locating it near a window and/or adding an antennae. Is there anyway to bring that "power' inside the house? Terminating the lead from the antennae to some kind of module inside the house?
                The problem is that 2.5-2.7GHz doesn't penetrate buildings well although Clear continues to improve indoor coverage by adding BTS's where needed. No there currently aren't any WiMax repeaters that would repeat the signal indoors. The closest you can get is what we have been describing here -- i.e an outdoor antenna that captures the strong outdoor signal and feeds it to the CPE/USB modem using a low loss coaxial cable.
                KF7RCQ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Kits online

                  Maybe I asked the question wrong...excuse me from being so perplexed about this set up. I would need a separate antenna for each modem Sierra USB and the CPEi725?...if I am using them at the same time? And if I wanted/needed to connect the secondary antenna ports then I would need two more antenna kits.?? And each has to be sperated by 10-15 feet?
                  The "G" series modem antennae I heard is a U.Fl connector? The Sierra 250 U is a SB9 (or something like that)??? I've seen connectors called SMA, FME, MMCX, MCX, etc, Microwave card while trying to find a pigtail for the "M" series modem. No one has ever said exactly what that female connector for the J10/J11 is.
                  The illustrations of every setup I've seen does not show how they are bringing it into the house...That LMR400 cable with its connector is LARGE. Using a flat window cable with N, F or SMA cables? or drilling holes with the smaller cables and connectors? or what.
                  The "KITS" I've seen on your sight are complete, with pigtail (save the M series).
                  DO Satellite dishes use Microwave beams and do they work for anything else besides the DISH or Direct TV?
                  Again, I am sorry for asking so many questions and thank you for your patience.



                  Originally posted by thuor View Post
                  You don't necessarily need two antennas. You can get away with one. See this article to learn more about this: http://www.rfwel.com/forums/content....s-Two-Antennas


                  The antenna port is very specific so you need the exact pigtail for it. You can search online if anyone has it cheaper but no you cannot use any arbitrary connector - it simply will not fit.



                  The problem is that 2.5-2.7GHz doesn't penetrate buildings well although Clear continues to improve indoor coverage by adding BTS's where needed. No there currently aren't any WiMax repeaters that would repeat the signal indoors. The closest you can get is what we have been describing here -- i.e an outdoor antenna that captures the strong outdoor signal and feeds it to the CPE/USB modem using a low loss coaxial cable.

                  Comment

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